XFree86 4.1 a ceska klavesnice

[Stanislav Meduna]

On 24 Aug 2001 16:53:51 GMT, Cejka Rudolf wrote:

: Ano take jsem byl v soku. A kdyz ted vidim, ze nejsem sam, prave jsem
: autorovi napsal a doufam, ze se dozvime vice. Nebo pane Kamile Tomane
: ctete i tuto konferenci? Pak staci odpovedet jen sem.

Kamil tuto konferenciu pokial viem cita, ale odpoviem aj ja,
kedze v tom mam tiez trochu prsty.

Ako jedini v celom XFree sme mali mapy, ktore obsahovali dve
rozlozenia prepinane ako grupy XKB. Prave toto viedlo k problemom
s instalacnymi programami roznych distribucii - neda sa ocakavat,
ze bude instalacny program ponukat sest roznych rozlozeni
pre cestinu a dalsich sest pre slovencinu. Nepisanym
standardom v X svete je jedno rozlozenie v jednej mape,
maximalne s nejakou drobnou zmenou typu z <-> x ako variantou,
a ak clovek potrebuje prepinat, pouzije na to tool (napriklad
moj xkbsel - ja ho pouzivam odkedy som ho napisal :-))

Skopirujem sem este cast diskusie medzi Kamilom a cloveka z XFree
(za obcasny cudny quoting nemozem...):

=== snip ===
* Pripojuji jeste par casti emailu (mezi mnou a Ivanem Pascalem z XF) 
  vysvetlujich cast zmen v keymapach (napr. zruseni variant cz_us a us_cz):

------------------------
>
> > - config tools don't work properly
>
> I'm not so sure about that

  Most config tool that I saw doesn't work with 'variants'. Some tools
allow to input 'variants' manualy but no one provides list of variants
that are valid for given layout.
------------------------
> > Additionaly, some people prefer the local keyboardas the primary
> > one (should be enabled by default), some (like me) can't stand
> > such setting ;). Thus there are two variants for every of the
> > three main types 'cz_us' and 'us_cz' (for sk analogicaly).

  I think it's not good idea becouse...
For examle xkb have mechanism such as 'Control Fallback'. It means
that when XLookupString try to 'controlize' char (Control modificator
is set in XKey event state) and current keysym have not corresponded
Ctrl-char this routine fallbacks to first (!) group and tries to
find Ctrl-char for corresponded keysym from first group.
  This way works good if first group is ASCII but fails in other
cases. So if cz/sk keysyms placed in second group Control key must
work independly what current group is. But if cz/sk is first group
you will have Control working when current layout is US only.
--------------------------
> However, the program Ivan Pascal suggested does only locking
> of certain group. If this setting is global (for all windows),
> there's no problem. But if you turn  'remember keyboard for
> each window' on (possible to set for example in windowmaker)
> then this approach is not sufficient.
>
> A user need to have a _default_ setting (either cz or us) for _all_
> windows. Then he can lock another keyboard map for certain windows
> if he wishes so... (but it'd be pretty annoying to do it every time)

  If Window Maker so clever to remember xkb group separately for each window
it shoud be clever enough to set 'default keyboard' for starting application.
If it can't so it is bug (maybe in design).

  BTW my program 'xxkb' (that do the same but as external module)
allow to specify 'start group' per application.
( see http://www.tsu.ru/~pascal/other/xxkb/README.eng )

=== snip ===


Dost dlho sa o tom diskutovalo (v mojom foldri je niekolko desiatok
mailov a to som v celej veci fungoval skor ako "konzultant pre
slovencinu" :-)). Je mi luto, ze to niektorym ludom vadi, to nam
bolo vcelku jasne. Sam som vo februari inicioval malu anketu,
kolko ludi to pouziva a ako velmi by im zmena vadila - vacsina
vtedy napisala, ze si uz sice zvykli, ale prepinanie externym
programom by nebola velka tragedia. Som presvedceny, ze v konecnom
dosledku ide o cistejsie riesenie.

Zdravi
-- 
                                   Stano